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      Super High Speed Main >> TGV, Thalys and AGV Eurostars ICEs and Velaros AGV Shinkansen Maglev Sokol from Russia Pendolinos Swiss Cisalpino Pendol. Watching sf. Paris GNo SNCF TGV Roster Super High S. Records Super High Speed News Super High Speed Lines         |
4rail.net - Super High Speed Trains - TGV & AGV | |
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Some of the newer additions:  Brand new TGV-POS's pose in Paris Gare du Nord for the camera. Almost brand new...the locomotives are new, while the coaches are from the TGV-Reséau sets. Single story trains of 320 km/h serve well the limited numbers of passengers between France and Germany. once the volumes pick up, it's almost guaranteed that the double decked coaches will be swapped to these units. Picture by Sanna Siissalo 2008.  A Thalys PBKA number 4243 boarding in Paris-GNO. As 40% more passengers are expected to travel the Thalyses within next 3 years, seventh daily return trip between Paris and Amsterdam were/will be added beginning March 2008. Picture by Sanna Siissalo 2008. |
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| TGV's | |
| TGV-PSE (TGV Paris-Sud-Est) | |
 The TGV-PSE unit 117 ,in the picture by Ilkka Siissalo, here seen in Zurich Switzerland is built with trivoltage electricity systems to enable it to reach both France and Switzerland. In Europe there is no such thing as a common electrical system although for the newer implementions of the 25kV 50 Hz AC seems to be popular. The swiss 15kV 16,66 Hz AC system can't provide enough power for the 1'st generation TGV's electrical system to run at their maximum speed and thus the speed is reduced to around 200 km/h. As a careful observer, you may notice that this means the French older 1500V DC system is insufficiet for higher speed's needs as well. However, the 1500V in France is only used around bigger cities and traditional lines with no capability to super high speed operations. All the super high speed LGV's (Lignes à Grande Vitesse) are equipped with the newer 25kV 50-60 Hz AC. |
The
first generation TGV-trains, the TGV Sud-est, were
painted attractive red
and orange for super high speed traffic, which started in
1981 between Paris and Lyon in France. After
decades of intense research many technical details were still
conservative on these production vehicles. I.e. traditional DC traction
motors were used and the suspension system was originally provided with
!springs! instead of pressurized air. The trains have served well and
were the important first step for the success of the TGV. The
TGV-PSE units were rebuilt
around year 2000 and
repainted to the current SNCF blue-silver-gray high speed colours.
Rebuilding also
meant
upgrading the speed to the 300
kph (from the original 270 kph)
for most units.
Being a great success as
the production super high speed train almost
all
of the TGV-PSE's are still in their original revenue earning use
around France and Switzerland.
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-> La Poste (the French National Postal Services) has 2,5 TGV-PSE units for it's express mail services. It is unsure, if these units have been cleared for 300km/h operations like the all the SNCF TGV-PSEs were after the refurbishing. More likely maximum speed for TGV La Poste is 270 km/h, still quite sufficient for the parcel and feight operations! -> All SNCF TGV-PSE's were refurbished around the year 2000. The famous orange-white-blue livery was painted silver-gray and blue and interior was upgraded. The maximum speed was raised from 270 km/h to 300 km/h matching that of the newer Atlantique and Réseau units. -> TGV-PSE Unit 46 hit a truck with the huge concrete mixer stuck on the level crossing near the Swiss border late 2007. The train speed just before the accident was fortunately just 100 kph. Although the truck driver was killed (as the truck was torn apart) the engineer and some passengers injured were 'just' injured. The TGV unit 46 suffered major damage on it's forward locomotive and the whole unit derailed. As with previous derailments, the TGV safety features prevented any major accident from happening (the trains stayed aligned in spite of derailment and the locomotives collision structure protected the engineer). At first it was thought that SNCF could borrow the locomotive from La Poste's half unit to get the unit running again, but later it was reported that the unit 46 was towed very slowly for repairs. One of the alternatives is that this would be the first cargo TGV-unit or the third La Poste unit, as it is unsure whether repairs will cost so much (TGV-PSE's are at the end of their lifecycle just 10-15 years remaining in active duty) that it would be wiser to order new TGV-Dasy or AGV unit instead. -> It's propable that the future of the TGV-PSE units is in the "quieter" routes to give room to more spacious double decked TGV-Duplex, TGV-Hybrid and TGV-Dasy units. Or some of the unit might be adapted to fast freight use. The TGV Manufacturer Alstom has had plans for the super fast freight units for decades. To the top of the page
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|
 Snails
on rail? Turn your head
or see the next picture... |
 ...and
the snail logo
turned around! |
 One
of the hundred or so unit
herd of the TGV-PSE's. |
 The new meets the old, the age of the original TGV design shows well in this picture. The TGV Duplex is unit number 208. |
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| TGV-Atlantique / TGV-A | |
 TGV-Atlantique set number 354. Externally similar to TGV-Réseau sets, Atlantiques have 10 trailers instead of the usual 8. |
The second
generation
of the TGV trains, TGV Atlantique,
was designed shortly after
the excellent experiences on the operations of the TGV-PSE's were
available. The original operating area for these improved super high
speed trains was the French new LGV
Atlantique
line
between Paris and Le Mans finished 1989-1990.
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| TGV-Réseau / TGV-R + Thalys PBA | |
 The SNCF TGV-Reséau set 552 in Paris right next to it's 'competitor' the Deutsche Bahn ICE3. Picture by Sanna Siissalo 2008.  |
TGV Réseau is the other second generation train set type. Externally similar to the Atlantique sets, the Réseaus have 8 intermediate trailers instead of the 10 on Atlantique. This makes Réseau sets "standard" TGV-length, 200 meters from one end to another, and allow the double set to use the French standard 400 meter platform length effectively. The
SNCF ordered 100 of the Réseaus as universal trains sets to
complement both TGV-PSE's and TGV-Atlantique's. With new lines opening
and more and more passengers boarding the TGV's, extra capacity was
needed. Later 10 of the initial order were converted to Atlantique
sets.
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| TGV-Hybrid | |
The SNCF TGV-Hybrids have similar locomotives to the TGV-Réseau set 552 in Paris Gare du Nord. Picture by Sanna Siissalo 2008. |
TGV-Hybrid is a year 2007 onwards TGV unit with TGV-Réseau locomotives at each end and TGV-Duplex trailers in between, easily distinguishable from the rest of the stock. The origin of the hybrids is with the shortge of the rolling stock (due to high demand in 2007) and the opening of the LGV-Est east of Paris. The original trailers of the TGV-Réseau coaches were used with the new TGV-POS train for LGV-EST. Why
to swap the coaches: The TGV-POS units are used on the area, where the
traffic volumes don't yet demand the usage of the double decked units
(traffic has not saturated the capacity of the track or stations). On
the other hand the enhanced TGV-Hybrid units have added passenger
capacity for the crowded lines south of Paris. Where the added strength
of the newest TGV locomotives is needed for the operational speed of
max 320 kph on the LGV Est, the TGV-Hybrids with their Réseau
locomotives are well suited for the "conventional" 300 kph French
high speed networks.
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| TGV-Duplex | |
 The infamous TGV-Duplex unit 235 in Paris Gare de Lyon in 2002. Picture by John McKey. 
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The
third generation of the TGV trains, the Duplex was developed
to
add extra capacity on the lines, which will be saturated by traffic in
the coming years. These lines include the original PSE line (LGV
Paris-Sud Est) and the line north of Paris. The Duplex has a new power
car design, double decked coaches and numerous improvements to the
earlier designs. The Duplex is easily distinguishable from the older TGV's by it's locomotives streamlined design and double decked coaches. The number of double decked units is ever increasing with tens of more unit in order for the SNCF. The newest locomotives for TGV-POS have very similar design, but look different due to their "updated" paint scemes (to accommodate these with the Reséau trailers). Technical details -> Delivered to use: 1995 - present (1st batch 1995-98, 2001-2004 2nd, 3rd and 4th batches, 2004-2006 5th batch, Duplex "Dasy" 2007-2009) -> Number of units: 89 -> Configuration: Power Car + 8 double decked trailers + PC -> Capacity: 545 passengers in a comfortable two class configuration -> Owned and operated by SNCF (The French National Railways) -> Operations area: Around the high speed and traditional networks in France and Switzerland -> Unit length: 200,2 meters -> Unit power: 8800 kW (11796 Hp), 4 powered bogies on locomotives -> Power to weight ratio (Hp): 31,04 -> ??? bicurrent versions: 25kV 50-60 Hz AC, 1500V DC -> ?? tricurrent versions: 25kV 50-60 Hz AC, 1500V DC, 15kV 16,66 Hz AC -> Operational max. speed: 300-320 km/h -> Mass, metric tons: 380t net / 424 t gross -> Power car wheel diameter: 920 mm -> Coupler type: Scharfenberg for coupling with TGV-Atlantique, TGV-Réseau and TGV-Duplex sets in multiple -> Duplexes are pressure sealed (like airplanes) for better comfort running through tunnels /meeting another train -> Track axle weight max: 17 tons Easy recognition
<= The Thalys PBKA on the left shows similar exterior design with it's French counterpart Duplex, except that the coaches are similar to the Reséau coaches, with just one level. Here a Thalys PBKA number 4343 in Gare du Nord January 2008. Picture by Sanna Siissalo. |
 
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| TGV-Dasy (TGV-"Daisy") | |
 The TGV-Duplex units are painted the same way as the Dasy's and look externally at first glance the same. Picture by John McKey 2002. |
The
name TGV-"Dasy"/TGV-"Daisy"
stands for the "Duplex Asynchronous". Once top of the line, the double
decked TGV's, newer
and slightly more powerful TGV-Dasy units are rolling out of the
assembly line at Alstom for the French National Railways SNCF. As
asynchronous traction motors require less maintenance and are more
powerful on the higher speed than their DC counterparts, the order for
this evolutionary model a logical move from the SNCF. Less maintenance
translates to greater return for the investment for the owner. Unlike
AGV's TGV-Dasy units use the tried traditional TGV design, which has
proved to be both reliable and safe with millions of kilometers
travelled since it's introduction in the early 1980's. Double decked
Dasys are intended to add capacity to lines, which are
already crowded. This will postpone the needed infrastructure
investments along these lines. Technical details -> Delivered to use: 2007 - present -> Number of units: 24 (200?) -> Configuration: Power Car (AC) + 8 double decked trailers + PC (AC) -> Capacity: 512 passengers in a comfortable two class configuration -> Owned and operated by SNCF (The French National Railways) -> Operations area: Around the high speed and traditional networks in France -> Unit length: 200 meters -> Unit power: 9280 kW ( Hp), 4 powered bogies on locomotives -> Power to weight ratio (Hp): -> 24 bicurrent versions: 25kV 50-60 Hz AC, 1500V DC -> Operational max. speed: 320 km/h -> Mass, metric tons: t net / t gross -> Coupler type: Scharfenberg for coupling with TGV-Atlantique, TGV-Réseau, TGV-Dasy, TGV-POS and TGV-Duplex sets in multiple -> Dasys are pressure sealed (like airplanes) for better comfort running through tunnels /meeting another train -> Track axle weight max: tons Easy recognition
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| TGV-POS | |
 The brand new TGV-POS units number 4407 and 4419 pose the camera in Paris Gare du Nord. Picture by Sanna Siissalo 2008. |
The
TGV-POS was a necessary addition and the next step forward in the
development of these highly successful super high speed
TGV-series. The POS version added among other things an
improved
AC traction motors and the maximum normal operational speed was now
raised to 320 km/h on the LGV towards the Germany. Technical details to be added, the ones below are mainly from the older TGV-Duplex. While many details have remained the same, there are differences as well. -> Delivered to use: 2007 - present (1st batch 1995-98, 2001-2004 2nd, 3rd and 4th batches, 2004-2006 5th batch, Duplex "Dasy" 2007-2009) -> Number of units: 19 (in order 200?) -> Configuration: Power Car + 8 double decked trailers + PC -> Capacity: 545 passengers in a comfortable two class configuration -> Owned and operated by SNCF (The French National Railways) -> Operations area: Around the high speed and traditional networks in France and Switzerland -> Unit length: 200,2 meters -> Unit power: 9280 kW (____ Hp), 4 powered bogies on locomotives -> Power to weight ratio (Hp): 31,04 -> ??? bicurrent versions: 25kV 50-60 Hz AC, 1500V DC -> ?? tricurrent versions: 25kV 50-60 Hz AC, 1500V DC, 15kV 16,66 Hz AC -> Operational max. speed: 300-320 km/h -> Mass, metric tons: 380t net / 424 t gross -> Power car wheel diameter: 920 mm -> Coupler type: Scharfenberg for coupling with TGV-Atlantique, TGV-Réseau and TGV-Duplex sets in multiple -> Duplexes are pressure sealed (like airplanes) for better comfort running through tunnels /meeting another train -> Track axle weight max: 17 tons Easy recognition
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| AGV - Automotrice a Grande Vitesse | |
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This is NOT an AGV. As AGV is quite hard to catch with a camera (only one prototype available) we will add the picture in the future to replace the now current production version of the TGV-POS. |
 The AGV
Special Page... The AGV is the newest super high speed development by the traditional TGV builder Alstom. The train itself looks very much like the 10 year old ICE3 and the idealogy behind it would appear to be at first look the same: saving the space of a locomotive (which is at the both ends of the TGV train) adds up revenue seats by almost a hundred! A notice the train operators can't ignore. But, the double decked TGV duplex is as well quite efficient revenue magnet. So maybe the real reason to design the AGV was after all the need to compete with now relatively successfull ICE3 (which claimed both Spanish and Russian markets, although the DB is said to be unhappy about it's ICE3's). The AGV is actually slightly more advanced than the ICE3: The AGV has articulated bogies, a feature which both adds to the lightness of the design and makes the structure safer. TGV's articulated structure is notorious for it's good behavior when accidents (very rarely) occur. While ICE's single car structure structure might zip zag in case of an accident, the articulated cars are said to stay well lined up even off rails. The AGV's maximum speed is 360 km/h, while the ICE3 currently can reach up to 350 km/h. Alstom has also announced the lead customer for the new train design: NTV (Nuovo Trasporto Viaggiatori) has ordered 25 (+10 options) AGV's to be delivered from 2010 onwards. NTV AGV's will be taken into use in the Italian growing super high speed network. In the near future, Italy will also be connected through Switzerlands mountain high speed tunnels with the super fast networks of the France, Germany and a little further to the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and Great Britain. Technical details -> Delivered to use: NTV 2010 - -> Number of units: (25 (+10 options)), to be serviced by Alstom for 30 years. -> Configuration: flexible, 7 - 14 cars, the AGV design basic unit has 3 units+4bogies, and these can be coupled together with intermediate car. Te configurations thus are: 7 units (3+i+3), 11 units (3+i+3+i+3) and interestingly 14 units (3+1+6+i+3). -> Capacity: 300 - 700 passengers depending on the configuration -> (to be) Owned and operated by: NTV (Nuovo Trasporto Viaggiatori, Italy) 11 car versions. SNCF, Renfe and Eurostar likely to follow soon. -> Possible operations area: most of European super high speed network: ie. France, italy, Switzerland, Spain, Germany, UK, Netherlands, Belgium,... -> Unit length: 130 - 250 meters -> Unit power: 6000 - 12000 kW ( Hp) depending on the unit length -> Power to weight ratio : 22,6 kW/ton ( Hp) -> quad current version: 25kV 50 Hz, 15kV 16,66 Hz, 3000V DC, 1500V DC -> Bogie motor type: permanent magnet motors with power feed back capability (new motor type to be used). Each 3 car unit has outermost bogies powered. -> IGBT traction converters next to the powered bogies. -> Operational max. speed: 360 km/h (7 unit sets 300 km/h due to the TSI braking rules) -> Mass, metric tons: 270 - 510 metric tons net -> Power car wheel diameter: mm -> Trailer lenght: 17,1 m (TGV 's 18.7 m) -> Trailer width: 3,0 meters (TGV's 2,9 m) -> train control: ERTMS to run on all major European lines -> Coupler type: to be added -> Track axle weight max: 17 tons Easy recognition
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| NTV
AGV specifics: 25 firm orders for period starting in 2010, + 10
options. These units are 11 module versions, and will include the
contract for Alstom for 30 year servicing for the trains.
According to sources at TR Europe the coaches will be painted
(surprisingly) "Ferrari red". The trains will have two classes, with
the "top class" with reclinig leather seats, TV-screens and internet
access, stereo and minibar. Sounds like these trains will have similar
services that the airliners first class might have today. AGV versus TGV (single story versions) - AGV provides +20% passenger space / unit - Use of permanent magnet motors on AGV means lighter weight, and less energy consuption, less noise and | |
